Because I dont think that people think about this enough, that the coming out process is not just stressful because you are telling your parents you like another gender or the same gender. Its from like the 14th century when people decided that being obsessed with your romantic partner and trying to fulfill every single one of each others needs would be the gig. We Can Do Hard Things is produced in partnership with Cadence 13 studios. Martha Beck: So they were kind of raised on a king size bed where Id throw food occasionally. So I was interviewing women and one of them said she went to her religious authority and she said, My family makes me do everything for them. Martha and Ro are back with another BeWild Files episode of Bewildered to discuss things that YOU, their listeners, are trying to figure out. Packed with purpose! She did make some pretty extreme sounds after that. Right. Martha Beck: Yes. But really the only reason we say, wait, what is because weve been culturally conditioned to believe in monogamy. And we would read that Melody Beattie, wed read from the Melody Beattie book. Because January 6th wasn't the end of the story, January 6th was just a practice run.
Follow Will Be Wild wherever you get your podcasts, or you can listen early on Amazon Music or early and ad-free by subscribing to Wondery Plus in Apple Podcasts or the Wondery app. Rowan Mangan: Im not even kidding. We knew that we were solid. Its just being together and cuddling while we watch television and it is Like you get up in the morning, youre having a bad day, youre feeling unwell or whatever you think. Salty, klutzy and Aussie, Ro co-hosts the Bewildered podcast with her wife, Martha Beck. Someones broken a cultural rule. And it just naturally every time happens, its the best. Rowan Mangan: Right. She was monumentally narcissistic. When I was on the phone with my mom describing it, she was losing it and was afraid. Rowan Mangan: I want to know them please. Like there was no option to not sit on the couch together. Well, I have to actually acknowledge Martha. Then we have dinner together. Shes doing all these things and shes tired. And they would all sit around talking about what to do to medicate her so shed be happy in that role. They walk in silence along the beach for a few more moments. What do you think Ive read on like nine different philosophies, and I think if we just bring this from that style and this from this style. And Oprah Winfrey has called her one of the smartest women I know. The trigger for me in this is that I have two spiders in my house my adopted teenagers. Rowan Mangan: Its fear there wont be enough for me. Its what he likes. The door slams after Karen and there was a long silence. Its not good for anybody. She holds three Harvard degrees-. I am learning so much about that term and what it means and how it applies to my life as a mother and caregiver. What if they always treat others the way spiders do? Sending love to you, Jenny, and to anyone else out there struggling. It was such a strange and wonderful thing for me. Friendships, even professional relationships. And I dont know if all non-binary people are amazing, but damn, these one does. We were like, oh my God. It seemed perfectly natural. I mean, Mormonism had defined the enemies of the church in the latter days as gay people, intellectuals and feminists. And so the thing that always occurs to me with this is I ask myself if I want to find a way to come home is its really simple. Its like gender isnt freaking real. And Ill never forget. Happenings? 2023 Audacy, Inc. All rights reserved. Shes like, So mom, now theres three of us and da, da, da. Shes just telling her. No worries. So the metaphor I always use with people, once I figured it out for myself, intellectually, if not emotionally, is that if you ask a spider what it loves and whom it loves, it might tell you, I love flies. Because spiders love flies, the way they crunch, the way they taste, all about flies is wonderful for a spider. And then we continue. She said, Im having very unusual feelings about Row. I was like, really? What is Polyamory - and how Martha, Rowan, and Karen make their relationship work. Yes. Rowan Mangan: 2. You can find out more about which cookies we are using or switch them off in settings. The heartbeat of OzHarvest. And me, I too am on Instagram. TW: @TheMarthaBeck Yes. I honestly, I said, this whole thing is spirit. Okay, so you were feeling it was weird, but you were telling yourself it wasnt weird. 3. Yeah. And the TV was on and it was a documentary about bears, which the narrator pronounced bear. You probably know more about it than we do Glennon because we havent read any books. 3. And if youre listening to this and you think, Im trying to figure something out. And so I think thats whats happening is that the soul is being let out of its cultural cage and kids, really brave kids are saying, I am none of the things culture says I am. Let me tell you about myself because thats the person youre dealing with. Hosted by Cristen Conger. And I was like, No, we have to have a group thread and youve got to call me sometimes and youve got to tell me that your day is going fine because I was really scared that they were the unit and I was the third wheel coming in. And that was really scary to me because it didnt feel solid. And I wrote out a nice little guide to submitting your questions. I hate to even say that out loud. And so I thought, oh, is he going to think this is so weird? Debunking the junk science behind health fads, wellness scams and nonsensical nutrition advice. I have to show you. And look here you are explaining it with language to our grateful listeners. Rowan Mangan: And so what Im supposed to do is get one of these kettlebells between my legs, not the way you think. Its so good to see your faces. So it's time I learned um, where it is I stand, exactly. Is he going to be upset? Player FM is scanning the web for high-quality podcasts for you to enjoy right now. What is Polyamory and how Martha, Rowan, and Karen make their relationship work. Martha Beck: The codependent is the fly, I feel completely bound to sit here and wait for you to take my life energy for your needs. And the spider is like, This is such a great relationship. So the person higher in the power hierarchy is often the spider and is being served by the fly. And when you find something that you dont want to do and you dont have to do, dont do it. And you are not in the equation. I love this book. Anything you create from a state of joy has an energy that makes other people want to share it. It's just being together and cuddling while we watch television and it is Like you get up in the morning, you're having a bad day, you're feeling unwell or whatever you think. But Ive been doing self-help thing, my whole career. Martha Beck: Yeah. They would sing songs in Russian. How many good mothers does it take to put in a light bulb? I think its just like that thing where I dont I think its just the way that humans sort of come apart and come together clump and everything is always unique. Yeah. Why would that be, little girl? I would say quite a bit offended. To help her serve others more. I think thats another good one. And thank you for the work youre putting out in the world. Talk about the rituals. So this is someone who actually knows whats going on. I'm currently redrafting a novel about Ireland, magic and the dangers of charm, which is due to be completed in late 2018. They come from, I have heard, from the dark days of Soviet repression in Russia. Welcome back to We Can Do Hard Things. Karen had done it all too. Click to read Wild Inventures, by Rowan Mangan, a Substack publication with thousands of readers. You were a little bit, yeah. So were you telling yourself it wasnt weird, but it did feel weird or did it actually. Martha Beck: But I do love that queerness has sort of broken the cages. Martha Beck: How Martha felt - after years of marriage to. Learn more about your ad choices. Plus Karens a morning lark and were both night owls, so we got the whole shift covered. During that whole time that we were sitting on the couch together, he got so happy. stung by the hypocrisy of martha's homosexual lifestyle in light of her previous characteri I am available for . I think all our bewilderment really just comes down to mixed metaphors. Like I was very lucky and that I grew up in a very progressive sort of family and city. Then I left Mormonism and started practicing polygamy. Made in , 1. Okay. Top tips & practical steps for diet, fitness, organization, self improvement & more. We didnt really have a lot of language about it or knowledge of how that other people did this and how they might do it. Were like, were going to say we have developed a very strong family feeling. And we would all, our only common language was Chinese, so it was very strange. Ro is currently pursuing publication for her first novel, a magical realist thriller set on the west coast of Ireland.TW: @rowanmanganIG: @rowan_mangan To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Yeah. Rowan Mangan: Were all outnumbered. Right, and I dont want to talk about happenings. Its a lighthearted nightmare in here, weirdos! They undervalue themselves. The mother bear will not do for any other bear what that bear can do for itself. I know this is a physiological effect of adoption and early trauma. Which is why you are our favorite person under the sun. Pedestals the wrong word for lesbians, isnt it? Just do something before they stop screaming. Rowan Mangan: . Martha Beck is a longtime soul teacher whose most recent book is The Way of Integrity, which Oprah named as an Oprah's Book Club selection on February 8. So it strikes me that theres going to be a challenge as you try to change your behavior with people that you want to maintain a relationship with just on different terms. Anyway. Yeah. Do you like blue cheese? A huge lesson for couples based on the revolutionary ways they deal with conflict, jealousy, and . For me, I was mostly dating guys when we got together. And theres nothing more important and wonderful to us than the TV couch time at night. Not the internet, the spider web. And then you just kind of encounter someone who is already a spider. Doesnt it just feel like-. So then were in Africa that time and Row We go out to see the animals and were silent. Shes got bears everywhere. Thats why were here. Nothing has happened. It is evolutionarily essential. Cookie information is stored in your browser and performs functions such as recognising you when you return to our website and helping our team to understand which sections of the website you find most interesting and useful. These comments were from people from all races, ethnicities, creeds, and nationalities who had felt othered. Exactly what she said, optional. I have a favor to ask. Why do you always use me? Thats not healthy either, and Ive tried to do a lot less of it in recent decades. And I said, have you asked any of my other siblings about the actual acts of sex? And she said, No. And I said, Do you want to start now? So it was my beautiful way of not having to answer that question specifically. A huge lesson for couples based on the revolutionary ways they deal with conflict, jealousy, and daily rituals to stay close. And the reason we thought this was such a great question was because in our culture, for many of us, it is seen as laudable to have this disordered behavior. Yeah. You grab the kettle bell by its weird little handle, and you slowly, in a controlled fashion, you stand up from your deep squat as you lift the bucket of despair over your head. And weve been working on those things for years and years and years. And let me tell you, Adam doesnt pretend anything. Right? Because when Abby and I fell in love, and decided we were going to be together, we were scared. Time I learned a little something about this adopted country of mine. So its not going to happen. And it kind of is a natural thing that happens when youve got a very, very small infant. Lets just go out there and bewilder the world. And Im like, What happened out there? And she told me Do you mind that Im telling this? The next few days or weeks, it was like literally trying to fight gravity. She was mugged while trying to recover from the bedbug bites. That, but also then with a little murder afterwards. In these eight deeply personal stories you'll hear promises made, broken, kept, and stretched. In September 2018, she was the only black woman in the room at Brave Magic, a famed writers retreat. Shes fighting her way out. No, I think so many of us relate to the exploding doormat. The Chalene Show is life coaching, personal development, nutrition, exercise, Earshot is going seasonal, welcome to our first season Promise Me. Martha Beck & Rowan Mangan: Polyamory & Throuple Life. And they treat me like Im a second class citizen. And the guy looked at her and he goes, But sister, you are a second class citizen. And so she was supposed to go home. Rowan Mangan: There was like someone we kind of knew had done a post on Facebook that day about Im interested in this thing called polyamory. I had a plan. And I write and talk about integrity. Rowan Mangan: And so we made little plan because we didnt want to lie. Okay. What theyre going through is very interesting to me and that openness, its made me much softer and more gentle and its really helped me be a better person, for sure. Rowan Mangan: Ive done that so many times. What I try to do, is stop it before I kill anyone. Martha Beck: Host Kelsey McKinney discusses reader-submitted comedic gossip with guests, diving into the lives and decisions of complete strangers. That I wont say yes to. But its like youve got a pillow smashed against your face, first protest weakly, and then your survival skills will kick, your survival instincts. Rowan Mangan: There really was a lot of time to not be among other people and not have the culture reinforced and the weirdness of it reinforced. So I already was on the outside of culture. And you go zipping about, you get caught in the web of someone who is already entitled, and then they get angry at you if you dont serve them the way their mother did or whatever. And you said Martha, because didnt you say this about Karen too. Theyre not unspoken. Get them out of the way early. How was it for you? Why do you follow the culture when you see what the culture has done, right? And so then over time we sort of edged towards what was actually happening, because the one thing about Martha and Karen is anyone who knows them, knew them, that that is not ever going to break up. And me, I was already out on my ear. A huge lesson for couples based on the revolutionary ways they deal with conflict, jealousy, and daily rituals to stay close. We were living in California and we would get up in the morning every day one winter. She holds three Harvard degrees in social science, and Oprah Winfrey has called her "one of the smartest women I know." Her newest book, The Way of Integrity: Finding the Path to Your True Self, was an instant New York Times Best Seller. But the image isnt, you had to be there, honestly. Its a fire hose of sisterly familial love. This means that every time you visit this website you will need to enable or disable cookies again. So thats, I think, the vast majority of people. Victoria Mcknight. IG: @themarthabeck Yeah. out todayInv. Rowan Mangan: Who can guess the major setting for the, "The cultural imperative to adhere to certain soci, I wrote myself some rules to help me get to the wa, "Do you find that you enjoy setting goals but have, New Substack newsletter this week. This website uses Google Analytics to collect anonymous information such as the number of visitors to the site, and the most popular pages. And now theyve done a re-publication of Codependent No More and guess who they sent it to for a blurb? It can feel like exhaustion. Rowan Mangan: Show We Can Do Hard Things with Glennon Doyle, Ep Martha Beck & Rowan Mangan: Polyamory & Throuple Life - 10 Aug 2022. So it was all like we had to sort of go, what is this, what this And there came a point where I was like, I will keep this from getting weird because I am not famous, but I am quite well known among people whove heard of me. I dont know. 2. 1. Like there was a little bit of judgment in it and whenever Im being judgemental, I always think theres something I dont understand. I never told anyone. Rowan Mangan: Being around people and laughing with them and Im very lucky. Rowan Mangan: A little television-Martha Beck: A little. Its deeper than that Glennon. And I have to tell you, he was living with Karen and me when Row entered the picture and I thought, hows this going to fly with him? Sign up below to receive information about the upcoming Wayfinder Master Coach Training. What is Polyamory - and how Martha, Rowan, and Karen make their relationship work. 4. I would say so. Im exhausted. Ratings and reviews are like gold in the podcasting universethey help people find us, they help build this beautiful community, and most of all, they help us in our quest to Bewilder the world. Get off the web. Rowan Mangan: Use me, use me, use me. The hilarious moment Martha, Karen, and Rowan told their friends they were now a throuple. And cant seem to get her shit together. Because I think we forget how many things are optional but that feel compulsory. I mean time was a huge thing. "SmartLess" with Jason Bateman, Sean Hayes, & Will Arnett is a podcast that connects and unites people from all walks of life to learn about shared experiences through thoughtful dialogue and organic hilarity. So I had three kids in my early twenties and I was chronically ill the whole time I had massive chronic pain. And you always say, That taught me to be a good helper, and you are crazy good at helping. Yeah, no, they did send it to me. Have you seen these things? Review our. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices. You might not know this, but ratings and reviews are like gold in the podcasting universe. Rowan Mangan: Youre my best friend or whatever. and you dont know which it is until you start until you stop over helping. Okay. Codependent No More: How to Stop Controlling Others and Start Caring for Yourself. Rowan Mangan: Or, No, no, Marty, you actually do sound passive aggressive. And I didnt believe it either. Theres the needing to get away. You speak them all the day long. Thank you for trusting us and sharing this hour with us, for the rest of you this week when things get hard, dont forget we can do hard things and make your list and cross off whatever you dont want to do or have to do and return home to yourself. Not at the time we got together, but a long time ago I had three kids. Martha Beck: Rowan Mangan: And you just feel like, Really? But then when she came and saw our family, there was no discussion after that. And we had this little girl during COVID times and God, how do people raise a child with less than three women? But then a friend of mine came from Australia and we were just like, So, this is the part of the day where we sit down and talk about our codependency., Rowan Mangan: Like, so whenever anybody has a non-binary kid, we get the call first and theyre like, can you queer auntie them? Transfer that to energy, attention, service to another person. Dont I count? No, they dont count. I mean, there are people who arent going to like it when you stop helping too much. The hilarious moment Martha, Karen, and Rowan told their friends they were now a throuple. 2. It would be like a two legged stool, that just does not work. And I think we didnt necessarily mean to do this for the sake of our relationship, but thats like the downstream kind of effect. As a powerful Immortal Guardian, s. And that is the work of a lot of marriages, like straight marriages where theres cisgender norms. How Martha felt after years of marriage to Karen when Karen told her she was in love with Rowan, too. We are obsessed with fighting because we just, I dont know. Yeah. And youre trying to cook. I honestly, Ive got to tell you, Marty, I wasnt that invested in the outcome of the question. Good Lord, I heard so many stories, not just in Mormonism, of couples going to a family therapist and saying, Hes fine, but shes exhausted. Well, I was trying to figure out if you needed me to like it. Rowan Mangan: It was like falling off a cliff and saying, well, Im going to decide whether to hit the ground. How easy is it to make a promise? We dont have your exact situation, but we do have three parents. View full post on Instagram Does queerness make the transition to this kind of way of love easier? Im sure that youre just a jolly, jolly bunch. 3. How would anyone answer under this type of grilling, the third degree? And they would try to build it up so this woman was so deserving of pity, and then theyd compete to see who deserved the most pity. There was a show that had one gay character and they wouldnt show it in Utah. Its the only kind of aggressive, I can be.. She also runs the Wild Inventures newsletter and community on Substack. Rowan Mangan is a writer, podcaster, and mom to a vivacious toddler, Salty Clexy and Ozzy. Martha Beck: Send post to email address, comma separated for multiple emails. Do you have experience of trying to get out of one of these? Rowan Mangan: So Abby, theres certain people who identify as polyamorous and thats part of their sexuality. Just stay in bed, read, Sunday snuggles, coffee in bed. Rowan Mangan: And yeah, women have been lower on the power hierarchy than men historically so it is much more identified as a female virtue. So write a list of things you have to do and then read through it and see if theres anything you dont want to do. "Finally, Karen Gerdes is the gentle force that put me back together after the events of my life tore me apart, and the one that has kept me whole. And so we gathered together and its like gathering around the campfire. And she says, Okay, so this is Because Karen doesnt care. And we decided that if we were asked a direct question about how the sex goes, we would say, its great. To say something happened does not prove it happened; to say one has physical evidence is not to show that evidence. On We Can Do Hard Things, my wife Abby Wambach, my sister Amanda Doyle, and I do the only thing that has ever made life easier: We talk honestly about the hard. Im from Ohio. If anybody solves all the problems humans created, it will be humans. Martha Beck & Rowan Mangan: Polyamory & Throuple Life, Similar to We Can Do Hard Things with Glennon Doyle. She said No, but I am aware that some people do. I was trying to figure that out for some time. Relationships with depression are like any other. IG: @rowan_mangan 8,099 followers. This episode really triggered me and I am mulling it over. In this episode of Bewildered, Martha and Rowan explore the concept of time and our complex relationship with it. If youve ever felt like an over-giver, this conversation is for you! Keep these comming, 2023 Podvine, LTD. All rights reserved. A huge lesson for couples based on the revolutionary ways they deal with . Because on the podcast, what we try to do is kind of pull aside the curtain to make ourselves conscious of where were being manipulated by the culture away from our own truth. And thats better for all the bears. Theres some ego work. What ensues is a genuinely improvised and authentic conversation filled with laughter and newfound knowledge to feed the SmartLess mind. You know that thing about like youre coming out as gay to your parents and then they have to think about you having sex. And it is a VIBE. I think so. Its like, I need to go wash my mouth out. Im on Facebook as Rowan Mangan. Rowan Mangan: Theres a lot of fear there too. You just never tell me anything. Rowan Mangan: 4. I mean, Rows not that much older than they are. It makes you think more and it makes you change more. Our impact in communities across Australia comes down to the amazing support of over 3,000 dedicated volunteers, who in the last year donated over 78,000 hours of their precious time. Its amaze balls. I mean-. I would also say our mornings are pretty ritualistic where whoever wakes up first usually takes the dogs out, makes the coffee. This isnt what you want to do. I would have to guess Reese Witherspoon. Or youre being too loud. * How many virtuous mothers does it take to screw in a lightbulb? Lets say youre a baby, youre a child, everythings great. And I never know, like it could go anywhere. About Martha: Please note: This is an unedited transcript, provided as a courtesy, and reflects the actual conversation as closely as possible. I wouldnt complain. That you give till it hurts. I have all I am doomed to be a cultural outcast. I mean, after a few years, its always, What about me? But Row was the one who was breaking the pattern, right. This is the code, when its a newborn baby, Im still talking about newborn baby. And like they ask really inappropriate questions and things that heterosexual couples never have to deal with. I told them as they grew that I was going to write a self or a parenting book called Crawl Over There and Get Your Own Damn Bottle. How Martha felt - after years of marriage to Karen - when Karen told her she was in love with Rowan, too. You can play along. Because if you put all attention off yourself and on at other people, the natural response, going from culture to nature, is it feels wrong. And you can automatically see why Bev refers to herself as a mother. I know, its gross. Rowan Mangan: I'm Ro: a writer, a podcaster, a mom, a food enthusiast. Email us! Well, and they feel the undeniability of it, thats what happened with us. Of course, nothings happened. So everybody gets together. Rowan Mangan: For me, its that keep your heart 100% open and be willing to be told where your blind spots are and to listen when somebody else, even if theyre upset, listen to them. So when you get into those arguments that couples have over and over, it breaks the pattern. If so, let us hear from you! Ro is currently pursuing publication for her first novel, a magical realist thriller set on the west coast of Ireland. No, but Im aware that some people might. It was so exciting. Rowan Mangan: Its sexualizing yourself in front of people over and over and over again, that is traumatic. We love you so much. So this, oh, I have to start over. What I realized, I guess I wont speak for Row, is that the only thing worth living for is hanging out with the people you love. Well, Im not big enough or good enough or whatever it is. Youre a fly. Can you talk to us about fight? And here comes Bev. Hi, my name is Bev. Yeah. And Im thinking you have never raised a baby. Listen to new episodes of Borderline Salty by Pineapple Street Studios every Tuesday starting April 12. Like, its optional. And I think its gorgeous. Out of that, got together with Karen, my first ever female/female relationship, and everything was good to go until we died, until something happened. We do have many listeners who are in polyamorous or who identify as polyamorous, which is another beautiful thing that I think you mentioned earlier, there are people who are circumstantially polyamorous like you. Martha Beck: Yes. And its still the worst thing you can do for everyone involved. Rowan Mangan: Because I always feel better after we talk. And the fly is going, Thats so interesting, because I do not.. Rowan Mangan: A huge lesson for couples based on the revolutionary ways they deal with conflict, jealousy, and daily rituals to stay close. And I just absorbed them when I was in my early 30s. Martha is the author of The Way of Integrity- Finding Our Way Back To Our True Selves, a harvard trained sociologist and an absolite icon. Its like, its a family, its a family. And thats how codependency feels. Tragically. And whats so interesting. They were so cool. Yeah? Yes. Thank you. Podcast with her wife Martha Beck, she also runs the Wild Adventures newsletter and community on Substack. But the woman says to the man, Youre really entitled. And, He goes, really? A huge lesson for couples based on the revolutionary ways they deal with conflict, jealousy, and daily rituals to stay close. Now, a lot of people think-. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices, Normal Gossip delivers juicy, strange, funny, and utterly banal gossip about people youll never know and never meet.
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