Understand that promos aren't an exact formula. Working with high EQ allows you to collaborate better. And your list of bullet points on qualities of a 63-er is pretty much the short list I have boiled it down to. I have had 3 positions in the past 8 years and best advise i can give is NETWORKING. Microsoft's '08 Mistakes: The Software Giant's Three Errors http://www.networkworld.com/news/2008/121908-microsofts-08-mistakes-the-software.html?hpg1=bnJust three? I've seen L65's who can't own a cardboard box, let alone a room.Well you know, don't go for them for advice! I myself am a L62 on the cusp of a midyear promo after 18 months. We discussed progress at least once a month. I know there are still some out there but things have improved a lot in my view. Step outside of your comfort zone, own PM, own QA, become great at what you do, and do what you love - and the promo will come. you want to complete A and A requires 10 devs. How accurate is this most likely Total Pay range (base + additional) of $396K-$652K/yr? Pull the ripcord. Until you can be honest with yourself (and it's not fun, trust me) you will be stuck doing what you're doing and your complaining will be the glue keeping you there. If I ever do decide to come back to MSFT, I will do so as a level 68+ and nothing less. If that means doing something you don't want to do, you might need a different manager (or company). I've been 3.5 years at 62 and re-orged every year in mobile.Any ideas on how to carry greats results of one role into another through a re-org. The point here is that I have more than once seen folks that were very talented and super stars get bumped for someone less talented but more vocal. I knew it backwards and forwards, better than anyone else does now or ever will. You can switch jobs internally and get leveled up (typically 6-12 months after) - but make sure you have the conversation with the manager as to what is the expected level and what is the cap. And do you anticipate what happened when I made the next move to Dev Manager position? I give you the example from http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/awaits "A busy day awaits" as evidence.So one legitimate missing punctuation mark, one matter of verbal interpretation, one popular idiom, and one completely correct phrase. Popping out of the pack in peer reviews may take some time so you have to be diligent, consistent and never give up. Don't waste it.
If you send a brownbag invitation to your VP level group then you know your VP is getting it. I went from level 62 to level 65 in that time. If you are level 64 and above, your relationship with your GM or VP or above.2) Your visibility to the GM or VP. I want to share some of my thoughts about succeeding at Microsoft and reaching Level 63, the Senior contributor level at Microsoft. I like such themes and everything that is connected to them. Excuses and griping and bemoaning aren't the stuff that L63 contributors are made of. It takes a little time to get on your skip-level manager's radar. L63 is very much an important milestone, and in tough-hiring times like these the following question has never been more important: "Will <
> reach Level 63 during their career?". Attack problems within your own areas of influence proactively and generate that same good vibe among peers. "This is the lament of every person in every big company everywhere it's usually a combination of truth (most of us are capable of more than the roles we're currently filling) and hubris (if I had a nickel for ever junior person who over-estimated what they were capable of I'd be retired). That is why to get to L65 a VP level person must know your work and be able to recall your name without help. Most organizations will do promo/slate through a consensus/stack rank process. Let's Hear it for the Girl! There are tons of Principles and L64s anyone can immediately recall who are not doing anything above or beyond their immediate teams. Isn't morale over the holidays going to be just wonderful? And in my experience they are *eager* to get your skills and your lower level payroll expense! Expertise in the following areas: Product Marketing Consistently created groundbreaking, customer-focused value . My best guess is that you think it should be await. Directors & Officers - microsoft.com Andy Winskill - Digital Transformation | Senior Director - LinkedIn . The way to get to a higher level is to increase the scope of your contributions.In our group (somewhere in STB), L63 seems to begin with having at least 2 reports. What Is A Senior Director - Zippia We have covered both technical and management track at Microsoft. Learn how this feature works. I agree with some comments that level make no difference. My experience, I joined MSFT at 63 and in 3.5 years I am at 65. Remember: what worked for some other person, at some other time, may not work today. Thankfully, those are relatively uncommon. This 360 review is confidential and you dont have to share it with your mgr unless you chose to do so. Microsoft Compensation Software Engineer $ 80K $ 225K Average Compensation: $101,338 Senior Cloud Software Engineer $ 90K $ 175K Average Compensation: $128,000 Principal Software Engineer $ 90K. L63 guys are supposed to influence their entire skip level org. Do a great job and you are likely to revise their expectations for the following cycle. Get a free, personalized salary estimate based on today's job market. Given all that, the two things that are key to promotion are:1) Your relationship with your skip level manager. Up to that point the "what" you accomplish can get you pretty far and you get some wiggly room on the how. If so I wish them good luck - as oppose to the US, these regions have laborlaws which makes it very hard for a company with Microsofts margin to lay people off. In my own experience, even after being a great developer for 2+ years, with straight 4.0 scores at that time, and despite having Dev Manager roles before Microsoft, I would be turned down on informationals for Dev Lead positions with the simple question: Have you been a Dev Lead at Microsoft? Help make it more accurate by, Get started with your Free Employer Profile, average salary for a Senior Director is $170,707 per year in United States, The Ultimate Job Interview Preparation Guide. I am a [sic] HR manager. "http://www.poppendieck.com/pdfs/Compensation.pdfWorth a read, Lisa. I know devs who got in at the wrong level and paying the price because they didnt negotiate their level correctly when they joined. Last August (different group), I received a dreaded "Limited II", in spite of my manager telling me that he didn't actually think I was in the "bottom 10" at Microsoft, but that the devil made him do it (so to speak) and that it was a "no-brainer" for him. The skip level is totally nonchalant to her ways. This is all well and good, but in 9years I've never worked in a group with a Senior IC (Windows, IE, .NET), though some architects. I drove my 59-62 agenda with an iron fist and it didn't matter so much that I didn't play well with others or work to help other teams who were struggling.I became a manager during that time and had a year of major hiccups while trying to break through to 63 -- all of a sudden the fact that I was a unilateral force was working *against* me and not for me. You should leave. How do you get the right job/work that will make the impact. Amazon, Go to company page Add your salary anonymously in less than 60 seconds and continue exploring all the data. Results-focused: they are focused on getting great results and don't entwine their ego to particular solutions. Eventually, their team will remove itself from his control through internal transfers to teams with better managers, and the asshole ends up getting canned in a re-org if he doesn't see the writing on the wall and use his Apple resume entry to jump to some other company.The fact that you praise someone for "junk yard dog mode" shows me that Microsoft has a fundamentally broken corporate culture, and that you are part of the problem.-jcr, Think of the guy in the other companyI don't like where this is goingThat is the guy to beat.No, No, NO!Think of the customer, not the competition! Ellie Reinker - Senior Director - EcoTech Partners LLC | LinkedIn That manager was (in my and many others' opinions) an incompetent, non-technical "manager" who was incapable of recognizing people's talent and contributions. Make them successful at their job. Of course I ensure my manager and skip-level are aware of my contribution as a mentor, but I figure that as long as I'm in front of the wave, the best way for me to advance is to move the wave forward. The reason: there are a number of factors of success that are common at all levels (see #6 and #7 below). My old boss was a 65 but his title was "principal director of engineering", new boss is the exact same level and job and his title is "principal engineering manager". Get yourself a formal or informal mentor who is already doing what you want to be doing. You can work hard and grind it out. As someone who left MS @ L63 - and supposedly tracking strongly to L64 - and who has seen a lot of questionable promos occur, I think it's fair to say that the rise to "Senior" follows a slighly skewed distribution curve in that in the largest bucket case, you can probably see that L63 was warranted.However, on either end of the distribution, by which I mean people who easily obtained it and people who seriously struggled to obtain it, there are some disturbing anomalies that are difficult to explain away.You might say, "I can live with the corner cases" and I would agree that optimizing for those isn't worthwhile.BUT! . Moved to a role where I could see headroom and also where I could set specific commits and accountabilities with the GM, which I then exceeded and moved to L63 in '04. Because, except on the rare occasion, Microsoft and your team isn't going to change. He himself is principal for quite sometime. I am going through some finanical hardships and is getting the level changed is the only way for a salary increase? The true professional with loads of potential is left to Sulk. I'm an SDE, so a large part of my time in the product cycle is spent fixing bugs. Chris Capossela. For example, when I joined MS in 1990 there were 6 devs working on the first version of Word for Windows. You dont have the same experience or abilities to perform in a core STB senior level role. Find a way to make or save them money. Maybe." Will there be budget? Nobody will be shy of firing you if you make a big mess. So all you're telling me is I can't count on you so why should I? Let's apply that stick to cronyism and punishment based management practicies. Know when your market worth changes with our verified salaries newsletter, See exactly how much your competitors pay. Of course everyone wants to be promoted every review, so don't bother asking right after your last promotion.What matters most is that you are doing what your manager thinks deserves to get you promoted. In spite of it, I've been promoted 8 times in 12 years. Now a VP at a small cap (and growing, yes in this economy) company. Or - are they going to take the easy path and sack people in Europe and Asia? These two lines really serve to summarize the incoherent blithering that was jcr's post.Whoa, really? also work is good only when it leads to results that typically means team's success. "Your Recently Promoted L63 Peers"? Microsoft employees make an average base salary of $208k & a total compensation of $280k. Staff Software Engineer, Google Cloud Platforms, Senior Staff Software Engineer, Infrastructure, Principal Engineer, Developer Platform Systems, Senior Software Engineer, Mobile (Android), AR. But, if you have the possibility of finding a position that you will really enjoy, where your goals and those of Microsoft are fairly close, then your long-term potential will be higher. Mini-Microsoft, Mini-Microsoft, lean-and-mean! Sorry for going dark for so long. Senior Director, Industry Advisor Life Sciences Salesforce Aug. 2020-Heute2 Jahre 8 Monate Zrich, Switzerland Building Go To Market Strategies; growing and driving industry thought leadership. Great post! Because, except on the rare occasion, Microsoft and your team isn't going to change.But, Mini, isn't your 'raison d'etre' just the opposite? I think that the whole culture of the stack rank + fighting for scraps for their directs + a lack of visibility and input on what will justify a promotion is what scares of managers from engaging with their employees regarding career growth.Note, that I am not saying that I want a guarantee one way or the other. Here are my thoughts on the Level 62 to Level 63 transition in the product groups: 1. Turn (it) Around, Bright Eyes: every now and then I get a little bit thrilled when someone joins the team straight out of school (or with a little industry experience) and after a few months it's obvious that Microsoft is the best company for them. When I was an IC, it was tough technical problems or simply critical problems that no one else wanted. Senior leadership team - Microsoft UK When she finally left the company four years ago things improved greatly. That is, its hard to define, but I know it when I see it. On the subject of switching teams: It's completely possible to move up by being really good exactly where you are, in most cases. Outside of those two situations, I have never asked for a promotion. Email@ elliereinker@gmail.com | Call@ 330-554-0249. You may not need them to get from 59->60, but if you're good at them, it'll make your rise much quicker. My manager told me a while ago that I was about to get one. If you can make the argument about the job - and you're in a position of strength, obviously harder now than in years past, you can make the case. Because when it comes time to roll people out of the team (as teams do from time to time) this "No, never" a marker that is used to help figure out who - at I and II CSP levels - is either on-track or out. They literally lived in GM's office for half a year to get the promo from L64 to L65.3. Jade Tong - Director of Business Development - Asia - LinkedIn Losing focus of your target next career level will leave you with nothing but regret and wasted time, sometimes years. We definitely need a new thread, things are starting to happen indeed.Our 120+ person org has just been broken up due to lack of budget. However good your manager is, she or he is still a human with insecurities and ego. The Goldstars have already been canceled for this quarter.Next, I believe this post will most likely be useful for those who entered MS as intern/college hires. keep in mind mentors are not one size fit's all. Eng, Go to company page Unless you plan to stay in the same org the rest of the time at MS. Same applies if you started your career in Test. Weirder sh*t has happened before. I've changed jobs but came back to the group that's been the most supportive. VP has to find the 10 devs from some other less attractive project. Sometimes i laugh when i read the armchair CEO's on this thread - there is a lot of criticism of Steve, but 99% of our brains would absolutely pop if we had to confront the complexity of decisions he makes in one day. (Senior Project Manager), with 63 (Senior Project Manager) level earning average salary of $247k along with $38k worth of stock options. It sounds fishyMy manager was also saying me something along the same lines. I was an asshole, but I was better than my peers at getting shit done -- I was a PM in DevDiv at the time. Have you honed in on what aspects of this brand are most important in the calibration discussions and know how you'll show you're a rockstar in these areas? Microsoft That didnt happen by chance alone. 3. This is a really awesome post. You try that in subs (who actually generate the revenue, HQ typically dont) - but the question is - do they dare push such a thing in the US? Senior->principal->partner are the level bands, 63/64->65/66/67, 68/69/70. "a HR manager" is acceptable if HR is meant to convey a spoken "a human resources manager" rather than a spoken "an aich arr manager".haven't should have an apostrophe, yes. you need to hit the pause button for one big time-out regarding where you are, where you're going, and what needs to change. Thanks. By then I had already already set up several clients as in independent consultant, so I declined to stay. Because, IMO, that is the jist of jcr's post. I am a HR manager. Heck, we would be lucky if many can do even that well. Up or out as they say.I found a niche I was happy in. What if you and your manager are at the same level L62. Are you sure you know what your boss wants? weeks to find another position within the company, otherwise they are laid off.Think that's known as a "RIF" not a "layoff" butwhat do I know? Mini -- you left out the most important option, which I took. Why are we doing x and not y? They will have thought this out. Some related job titles areMarketing Director salaries with median pay of $163,348,Senior Consultant salaries with median pay of $123,519,Senior Product Manager salaries with median pay of $193,845,Managing Director salaries with median pay of $333,006. The CSPs are a good attempt to define each level, but anyone who is looking at the CSPs and saying I do that, and that, , but Im not getting promoted is almost certainly missing the point. Of course, it goes without saying that if you dont have any substance you will likely hurt yourself badly and get ignored with vengeance next time. Your Team: you have to be able to understand why the L63s and L64s are where they are. This is a great topic! Some can even challenge you and give you the tough love and direction you need. I've been hearing some stealth layoffs around the SQL and BOSG groups, around 70+ people were given 6(?) If your boss is saying "Yes, ready for promo now" and your skip is saying "No, not now" well, why? The important thing though is, can you hold things in a room full of other Senior team members. It's a knife fight to 63. Incompetent people tend to significantly overstate their performance, and significantly understate that of their co-workers. But more likely youre displaying the hallmark of a weak performer described in the article of the same name (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2000/01/18/MN73840.DTL). So honestly, what is your boss's answer about if you'll reach L63? If you have potential and luck then you can achieve promotion velocity of one level every 18 months.Finally, heres my advice for who aspire for L62->L63 jump: Look around. I basically just hoped that hard work would get me ahead. Would they give you the level if you were not already a Microsoft employee? All you have to do is look at the level distribution, there is a large dropoff in positions at 65. Be the Rosh Gadol Microsoftie. Think of the guy in the other company, the guy who is building something that competes with you, with your team. )Those are only 3 of many 'soft skills' that will hold most people, even brilliant people, back.Has every level X mastered these skills? The education qualifications required for various roles for Technical track are: The highest job title in management track in Microsoft is "Vice President (VP)". I am not worried. Only 1 of the 4 [sic]s were legitimate. Tech savvy yet entrepreneurship minded hence able to see things from . Asshole managers aren't unknown at Apple [] The fact that you praise someone for "junk yard dog mode" shows me that Microsoft has a fundamentally broken corporate cultureThanks for a nice belly laugh to re-energize my morning. "haven't seen nothing yet" is a fairly common construction. L65 here, worked up from L59 (actually, 10 in the old system).The key is always to keep your eye on the goal. Now the setup team for most products has more than 6 devs. You forgot "never ask for a promotion".Forgive my cluelessness, but: Why not?MSS. Senior-level Marketing Executive with experience in the consumer and B2B industry. When someone else is waiting on you for something, don't be the reason they can't get their shit done.4. Is this a normal situation and should I not be worried?MCS has different pressures regarding levels. I'm a Level 64 in Office and I agree that the Level Compression puts a crimp in promotion velocity in Office. Thanks.Sorry mini -- I meant the content of the comment I referenced, not the content of your original post (which I'm in violent agreement with). If you are within striking distance of level 63 in the next few years, then consider yourself VERY fortunate. Therefore, our need for people who can collaborate across their own team, across disciplines, across org boundaries is greater than ever before. The CSPs are a good attempt to define each level, but anyone who is looking at the CSPs and saying I do that, and that, , but Im not getting promoted is almost certainly missing the point.---I used to work in Devdiv, and I respect Kelly a lot. Here's some advice from a recent L64'er (L63 last year). Is that a req. But people who move often grow faster because of two things (in my opinion.) Thrive on it! Boeing, Go to company page One could easily sack 4000 heads at HQ and R&D nor revenue would take a hit. Joined MCS at level 60 and was immediately told that L61 would be years away. Specifically, that is a tendency to try and do everything themselves, taking too much individual accountability as opposed to building a v-team across orgs etc etc.Most managers in Microsoft - in my personal experieince - are competent managers. How long do people usually sit at L62 in MCS? HTH. In this article, we have explained the Job levels at Microsoft which starts at SDE and goes up to Technical Fellow. But that's kind of the point -- simplify your approach. PROFESSIONAL SKILLS & HIGHLIGHTS OF QUALIFICATIONS Over 20+ years of experience working in large-scale real-time corporate environments Able to communicate concepts and details to clients, development team and testing team Excellent organization and communication skills, both written and verbal: clear and concise Knowledge of computer development software across multiple platforms . L66 would be Principal or Sr Director. The estimated base pay is $243,438 per year. When it comes to where you actually rank and what you get paid that part is all that matters. What worked well and what really horked things up for you? The good thing in most teams here is that if you persist, you will get there. Nowadays, having been there and moved up, I would highly prefer someone that already succeeded as a Lead at Microsoft than a star individual contributor. Most gravitate to safe work that's in their comfort zone or work they enjoy. > Lots of very true points. "I'm in the 61 bucket and currently struggling with my team for many months. >> You forgot "never ask for a promotion".This is better written as "Ask what specific things you are lacking in, which are preventing you from being promoted to the next level". Browse all Microsoft Software Engineering Manager salaries Frequently asked questions He won't answer your questions on what is going on or you get vague answers.All of this in most cases is probably directives from HR. Microsoft is so unique (and not in a good way) that you need to have blogs like this and focus on managing your career inside the hobbesian nightmare, rather than making good and cool software. Ugh, not good, not good at all.>Finance is cutting 10% of work force. Remember the "how".All the things Mini mentions do translate further up in levels. L6 =64-65. Maybe everybody's aware of being "in lockdown" and keeping their heads down? Mgmt, MSFT levels: CEO > VP > Partner(Director) > Principal > Sr. Eng > Eng 2 > Eng 1. That's awesome. But it's no guarantee that all your peers will match. Kudos to you for posting it. then you're really off in the weeds.Think of the guy in the other company, the guy who is building something that competes with you, with your team. Seriously - if you wave a competitor's offer in my face what have you told me? Every spec coming to this team had my feedback in it. But power plays are at work and I get smacked when I try and take on extra work.So my question to the more experienced is this - how does one get the attention of management when they are focused on their own problems, their favorite underlings (of which I am not one), and when there is not enough work to go around?"1. Sign up on LinkedIn and join the Microsoft Employees or ex-MSFT employees groups and then you'll see them posted. I think one of the things that is frustrating is how opaque the promotion system really is. According to Glassdoor, senior software engineers at Google can earn $172,818 as their average base pay, along with average cash bonuses of $30,921, stock bonuses of $104,769, and some other cash incentives for a total of $201,000. One of my august colleges uses the analogy of a trapeze artist. It can help you identify blind spots which may be holding you back.7. Ill answer first question later in this comment. I changed 3 groups at Microsoft. You don't get your money by snatching it out of Google or Apple's hands, you get it by convincing your customers to hand it to you.Do you want to know why Vista is such an unmitigated disaster? What's worse is the noise this creates. If you job simply doesn't scale to that next level - and many don't / can't - then you need to build rapport with your manager to have a focused career discussion about what roles are around to get you there and how you could land in one.2. If you want to advance and you are not a "favorite underling", your first and most important job is this: figure out how to become a "favorite underling". Great post Mini. Taking the easy escape out like that, you are more likely to get into the same situation at other companies. Lots of groundwork, considerable drama and leverage but eventually it got done. Lots of terrible mid level managers at MS. To the person from MCS who said it was easy to get to 64 in MCS - MCSinTheFieldI agree with you there, you can get to a L64 in MCS but try to ever transfer to another org as a L64. No managers seems to want to talk to the previous managers for promo stuff and each wants at least 12 mos of time to think to observer. The estimated additional pay is $257,304 per year. Mini, as good as your writeup is, there is too much emphasis on this level promo business in MS, and I have seen my fair share of people that have been burnt by it. If you have a good manager he/she will ensure the relevant peers know all about it. If the answer for you is "No" and you don't like that, well, what are you going to do? Entry level (428) Associate (378) Mid-Senior level (3,385) Director (2,581) Done . The position entails teaching an introductory physics sequence, upper-level physics courses, and related labs. Feedback is not detailed or actionable. As a L64 I find getting to 65 quite a wall. Strategy and Product Leader for an omni-channel team encompassing blended physical-digital experiences that combine personalized services with customer relationship strengthening across 400- centers. Well, what about everyone else? Microsoft Director level role - Blind So he is looking to become partner this year on the team's work. I saw several far more technically skilled people in the group who deserved this that were passed over. You will not know the difference.Steve Steve Steve given the state of the company, are you sure you don't have anything else more urgent to do? Oh, please. Don't let HR lie to you, this is a stack rank exercise. Once you identify those things scream about it by sending email with problem and solution and offer leadership to eliminate that imperfection. You need to consider how you can compete with the pizza eating 25 year olds that don't have a life and work 80 hours a week. Is Director and Principal same level in Microsoft? - Quora It's not easy. I thought changing groups would help me get promoted faster however all it did was make me resart from ground zero with each group. I take a creative approach to accelerating business transformation as a . Leadership: pro-active leadership that convinces team members of the future direction and even helps to . So I guess I know what it takes go get to level 63. Satya Nadella. L66 is Principal band. ask around for a good mentor or go to our internal mentor site to be matched with a mentor http://mentor/Mentor/user/mymentoring.asp. agree with positive suggestions here. Folks, Im really encouraged by this post and the focus on trying to help make others great. Will a team that needs exactly the skills and interests that you have pass on you because of some HR guideline? So most new hires at MS are L63 by default and they obviously don't have to work at it :).Yes, L64->L65 transition is REALLY big deal but directly joining MS at L65 as new FTE is not a big deal and there are usually ample of open positions.
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